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	<title>Comments on: Does Fairness Translate?: An Economist and a Linguist Delve into the Cross-Cultural Variations of What We Consider Fair</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/</link>
	<description>Beyond Words explores our experiences with language, culture, and the world through our day-to-day interactions.</description>
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		<title>By: jesse dziedzic</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-2002</link>
		<dc:creator>jesse dziedzic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Particularly well written article!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Particularly well written article!!!</p>
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		<title>By: demi</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-1979</link>
		<dc:creator>demi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 18:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Strikingly well written piece of writing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strikingly well written piece of writing</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 23:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-1944</guid>
		<description>And Mr. Hoult is exactly right: fair is a colloquial notation for a mean, taken across many contexts.

And my comment to Professor Wierzbicka was:

In economics we have an elaborate analysis of marginal valuation which goes to show how competition reduces variation in prices, bringing consumers and producers to their knees to face the One Price.  It seems people do recognize at least the end-product of a competitive market, which is the One Price.  And when prices start to vary a lot from it, well, that&#039;s &quot;unfair.&quot;  

Fairness in the case of prices has to do precisely with equality of opportunity, everyone facing the same price, whether the prices are *actually* driven toward the equality of One Price by justice concerns or not (a point economists have been railing against since they were economists).  

And even when people pay different prices, as long as so-and-so is assumed to be able to &quot;afford&quot; the price, she gets her due: the exchange is fair.  Here equilibrium is achieved between what she &quot;can&quot; pay and what she &quot;does&quot; pay, satisfying the egalitarian ethic.  Any way it is sliced it seems to me Fair Prices are always conceived of via equality, and hence fairness too sleeps safely in equality&#039;s blanket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Mr. Hoult is exactly right: fair is a colloquial notation for a mean, taken across many contexts.</p>
<p>And my comment to Professor Wierzbicka was:</p>
<p>In economics we have an elaborate analysis of marginal valuation which goes to show how competition reduces variation in prices, bringing consumers and producers to their knees to face the One Price.  It seems people do recognize at least the end-product of a competitive market, which is the One Price.  And when prices start to vary a lot from it, well, that&#8217;s &#8220;unfair.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Fairness in the case of prices has to do precisely with equality of opportunity, everyone facing the same price, whether the prices are *actually* driven toward the equality of One Price by justice concerns or not (a point economists have been railing against since they were economists).  </p>
<p>And even when people pay different prices, as long as so-and-so is assumed to be able to &#8220;afford&#8221; the price, she gets her due: the exchange is fair.  Here equilibrium is achieved between what she &#8220;can&#8221; pay and what she &#8220;does&#8221; pay, satisfying the egalitarian ethic.  Any way it is sliced it seems to me Fair Prices are always conceived of via equality, and hence fairness too sleeps safely in equality&#8217;s blanket.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-1943</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 23:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-1943</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m absolutely behind Liberman, though coming from economics myself I wouldn&#039;t run-down Wilson as such.  Talking about Fairness in economics is professional suicide without tenure.

But more of Liberman&#039;s skepticism about comparing cultures and historical trends through lexicon development is ABSOLUTELY in order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m absolutely behind Liberman, though coming from economics myself I wouldn&#8217;t run-down Wilson as such.  Talking about Fairness in economics is professional suicide without tenure.</p>
<p>But more of Liberman&#8217;s skepticism about comparing cultures and historical trends through lexicon development is ABSOLUTELY in order.</p>
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		<title>By: I.B.</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-1838</link>
		<dc:creator>I.B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-1838</guid>
		<description>Thank you Y. Solis! That was exactly what crossed my mind as soon as I read the second paragraph of Bart Wilson&#039;s article. Viva Shakespeare!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Y. Solis! That was exactly what crossed my mind as soon as I read the second paragraph of Bart Wilson&#8217;s article. Viva Shakespeare!</p>
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		<title>By: Y. Solis</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-1749</link>
		<dc:creator>Y. Solis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-1749</guid>
		<description>I question the 18th century date for this meaning of fair.  The three witches in Macbeth chant &quot;fair is foul and foul is fair,&quot; which, on the surface, relates to the weather but is also a play on the theme of usurpation that runs through the play.

Thank you overall for a thought provoking post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I question the 18th century date for this meaning of fair.  The three witches in Macbeth chant &#8220;fair is foul and foul is fair,&#8221; which, on the surface, relates to the weather but is also a play on the theme of usurpation that runs through the play.</p>
<p>Thank you overall for a thought provoking post.</p>
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		<title>By: john hoult</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator>john hoult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 20:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-1678</guid>
		<description>As a boatbuilder, I&#039;d like to bring in another meaning of fair, as in &quot;a fair line.&quot; This means a line describing a smooth curve, without kinks, bumps or sudden changes of direction. It is arrived at by a less than precise averaging of a series of points to form a good looking line. It seems to me, this is what fairness is: an averaging generally for the good. &quot;Fair to poor&quot; means not below average to poor, but average to poor. A fair number or fair sum is somewhat more generous than the average and is usually used when that favors the speaker&#039;s view. And what is fair in most games (baseballs fair/foul excluded) is not base strictly upon the rule book. I think this is the link between fairness as beauty and fairness as within the realm of justice, by and large. It is unsurprising that the amounts accepted in the Ultimatum game vary. Concepts of fairness vary within our own (American) political system. A liberal might (over simplifying here) say that it is unfair for the haves to have so much; a conservative might counter it is unfair to take what is rightly earned. Why would anyone be so simplistic to think that fair value would always be the same?

In closing, given the meanings of these less common usages, perhaps fairness doesn&#039;t have a word for word translation in any other language. Nevertheless, to hold that the lack of the word equals an inability to understand the concept is, well, unfair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a boatbuilder, I&#8217;d like to bring in another meaning of fair, as in &#8220;a fair line.&#8221; This means a line describing a smooth curve, without kinks, bumps or sudden changes of direction. It is arrived at by a less than precise averaging of a series of points to form a good looking line. It seems to me, this is what fairness is: an averaging generally for the good. &#8220;Fair to poor&#8221; means not below average to poor, but average to poor. A fair number or fair sum is somewhat more generous than the average and is usually used when that favors the speaker&#8217;s view. And what is fair in most games (baseballs fair/foul excluded) is not base strictly upon the rule book. I think this is the link between fairness as beauty and fairness as within the realm of justice, by and large. It is unsurprising that the amounts accepted in the Ultimatum game vary. Concepts of fairness vary within our own (American) political system. A liberal might (over simplifying here) say that it is unfair for the haves to have so much; a conservative might counter it is unfair to take what is rightly earned. Why would anyone be so simplistic to think that fair value would always be the same?</p>
<p>In closing, given the meanings of these less common usages, perhaps fairness doesn&#8217;t have a word for word translation in any other language. Nevertheless, to hold that the lack of the word equals an inability to understand the concept is, well, unfair.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia Lynch</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-487</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been studying public beliefs about fairness in the US since 2003, looking at differences in how people evaluate inequalities in health and health care, earnings, and education.  The language that people use to talk about fairness is a key part of my research, which is based mainly on survey experiments and in-depth interviews.  I&#039;m a comparativist by training, and I don&#039;t buy for a minute that fairness is an untranslatable concept.  What I do think is that beliefs about what&#039;s fair very considerably depending on what kinds of goods are in question, who benefits and who suffers from a given distribution, and who is doing the judging.
www.polisci.upenn.edu/~jflynch/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been studying public beliefs about fairness in the US since 2003, looking at differences in how people evaluate inequalities in health and health care, earnings, and education.  The language that people use to talk about fairness is a key part of my research, which is based mainly on survey experiments and in-depth interviews.  I&#8217;m a comparativist by training, and I don&#8217;t buy for a minute that fairness is an untranslatable concept.  What I do think is that beliefs about what&#8217;s fair very considerably depending on what kinds of goods are in question, who benefits and who suffers from a given distribution, and who is doing the judging.<br />
<a href="http://www.polisci.upenn.edu/~jflynch/" rel="nofollow">http://www.polisci.upenn.edu/~jflynch/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/01/30/does-fairness-translate-an-economist-and-a-linguist-delve-into-the-cross-cultural-variation-of-what-we-consider-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/?p=1474#comment-473</guid>
		<description>Excellent post. Brought up some points that I haven&#039;t thought of before... I like Mark Liberman&#039;s ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post. Brought up some points that I haven&#8217;t thought of before&#8230; I like Mark Liberman&#8217;s ideas.</p>
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